Ghost prisoners

Interview with Clive Stafford Smith on Obama and the closure of Guantánamo Bay

What do you think of Obama's promise to close Guantanamo? Do you believe this will happen?

I feel sure that Barack Obama will fulfill his word, and close Guantánamo.  I suspect it will happen very quickly in his administration.  However, there must be some words of caution.  One is that Guantánamo has always been a diversionary tactic in the ‘War on Terror’ – despite its very secretive qualities, it is the most public face of the Bush ‘Secret Prisons’ programme.  And it is a very small part of the problem.  As of this moment, there are roughly 255 prisoners in Guantánamo, whereas there are some 27,000 ghost prisoners being held by the US beyond the rule of law around the world.  So Guantánamo holds fewer than one percent of the prisoners, and the others are even worse off. 

To my knowledge, only two of those 27,000 have ever been allowed to see a lawyer.  They are being held under worse conditions, many in Iraq, others in Afghanistan, and others in far flung prisons in Bosnia, Diego Garcia, Djibouti, Ethiopia, and Kosovo, as well as proxy prisons in Egypt, Jordan and Morocco.  Nobody seems to know about them, let alone care about them.

At Reprieve, reuniting these people with their legal rights is top of our priority list.  But of course we are very small, and do not have the resources to help everyone, so we desperately need help. 

How do you think the plans to close Guantánamo will affect current prisoners?

For the most part, the prisoners will go home.  For example, there are still more than 90 Yemenis in Guantánamo, and there is no reason they could not go home tomorrow, if only the Yemeni and US governments would talk sensibly to each other. 

A small number, perhaps 40, will be taken to the US for some form of proper trial.  This should have happened years ago.

The biggest obstacle to closing the prison is presented by the 50-odd people there who are stateless – from Palestine or other countries where they cannot go home.  Many of these were long since cleared for release, as we proved that they were swept up in Pakistan.  The Pakistanis essentially sold them to the US for bounties, a practice that President Musharraf boasts about in his autobiography, In the Line of Fire.  At Reprieve we have been working hard on this resettlement issue, because Barack Obama cannot fulfill his promise to close Guantánamo if we cannot find a place for these men to go.  We are trying to find a country that will offer a home to these men. 

It is not easy, but it is perhaps the most important work of the moment. European countries should stop merely complaining about Guantánamo, and help close the place by taking these refugees.  I am also hopeful that we will find homes for some of them in the Middle East.

How will the closure of Guantánamo affect future suspects and prisoners?

I am hoping that the US will get back on track both propagating the rule of law abroad, and respecting it at home.  However, there are two reasons why this will probably not come about as quickly as we might like.  One is that many of the truths of the past seven years will not see the light of day.  There will be a great deal of pressure on the Obama Administration not to dredge up all the terrible things that happened under Bush.  The apologists will use the argument that the revelations of pictures of Abu Ghraib only served to inflame the world.  There is some merit to this claim.  None of us wants to see more hatred.  However, until the truth is exposed, it is unlikely that we, or those who follow us, will learn the lessons we need to learn to avoid a repetition of this dark period in US history. 

The second reason to think that this rendition programme will not simply melt away at the end of the Bush administration is that it was not started by Bush, but by President Bill Clinton.  There is plenty of violence around the world that Barack Obama will inherit, and prisoners are being taken every day.  What is happening to them?  Presidential policies are often only as good as the information that gets through to a president.  There is every reason to think that Barack Obama knows very little about the on-going system for rendering prisoners to dark holes around the world, and there is an institutional interest in the CIA to avoid this coming out.  Until the light of day shines on the process of rendition, it is unlikely to be purged from use. 

Barack Obama has also promised not to use torture, what other promises to guarantee human rights would you like to see the President-elect implement when he comes to power?

The US should sign up to the various documents that it has rendered ineffectual during Bush’s term, and commit itself wholly to international law.  There is a profound level of hypocrisy in the way in which the US currently operates, and it is not good for the US any more than it is for the rule of law.  One day, when China is the most powerful nation on earth, the US will regret the precedents it is setting by elevating might over what is right. 

Currently, Bush bangs on about how the US propagates democracy and the rule of law.  Yet if you look at the UN, the US has refused to sign up to a single international covenant that is enforceable in a court of law – even the Convention Against Torture. Imagine if the Mafia took the same position?

The US refuses to allow its citizens (myself included!) to be subject to the International Criminal Court.  How can we expect the President of Sudan to subject himself to international law if the US won’t?

The Bush Administration refuses to pay its UN dues if they are used for policies with which he disagrees, like abortion and even contraception.  Consider what would happen if you refused to pay your taxes in the US on grounds of disagreeing with Bush’s military adventures:  you would go to jail.

It is time we behaved as if we truly believed in the law.

Do you think the closing of Guantanamo will change how the world views the 'moral stature of the US'?

It is certainly a huge step forward, but then there is a great deal of ground to be made up. President Bush has dragged America back by a generation – or, in the case of the medieval torture methods he has reintroduced, by several centuries.  People will remember the pictures of Abu Ghraib and the orange uniforms of Guantánamo Bay for many years to come. 

I wish that Barack Obama felt able to issue a simple apology, as this is the first step towards redemption.  It is probably going to be impossible, given domestic politics, for him to admit that the US just got it all wrong.  Yet at least (I hope, and believe) his actions will speak loud enough to set us back on the right track.